Curse

payne · Nov 26, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

Ranger: Heroes love to run up to enemies just to use Throw dirt

It should be removed or always kept on cancel. Heroes are pretty decent with Epidemic, but keep in mind they'll use often if they can spread conditions besides Dazed. With some micro'ing though, it's powerful against bunched up enemies. Rangers already have the safety of being in far range and have 100+al vs ele damage, they shouldn't need 2 self protection skills in pve. If you're gonna put 10 in wilderness just for Unguent for alone, Natural stride should be added for sure. Whirling defense is a pretty outdated skill, and the long recharge makes it somewhat bad. I'd recomment just going 12/12 exp/marksman and replacing unguent/whirling for Lightning reflexes...ias + stance in one skill with a decent recharge.

firstly if you read the thread this is roughly the bar I was using with alternations!
as heroes aent good at tanking I usually tank and got through all of Cantha / Elona by doing it!
vigourous spirit is self-macroed

dervish - is occasionally used in heavy enchant areas (Nundu bay also)

b-surge ele...conditions wear off to fast in HM so both need to be included to keep up a constant barrage of blind (plus can switch them between two targets)

MM - I agree with Racthoh I believe it was who said death nova is not necessary in HM as hero spends all time casting it on minions instead of other stuff (not sure if Racthoh but believe it was)
curse nec - not necessary for HM to have enfeeble - chances to miss are good enough as fast attack speed helps with damage - as I tank with prot spirit weakness is irerelevent!

updated fire ele bar - no need for self energy management - never goes below 60energy for me!

Cathode_Reborn · Nov 26, 2007, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by payne

b-surge ele...conditions wear off to fast in HM so both need to be included to keep up a constant barrage of blind (plus can switch them between two targets)

curse nec - not necessary for HM to have enfeeble - chances to miss are good enough as fast attack speed helps with damage - as I tank with prot spirit weakness is irerelevent!

Conditions have the same duration in HM. If you're willing to go E/me, heroes are actually somewhat decent with Spreading blind using Epidemic.

For general use, Enfeebling blood is pretty much superior to Price of failure in HM. An enemy still has 75% chance to hit while hexed with it, and it'll hurt your casters alot when it does happen. Aggro isn't always perfect and will often switch targets. Even for damage purposes, Price of failure is somewhat weak in pve because it's recharge....things die much too fast (at least they should) for it to be worth it. Keep in mind that Weakness reduces attack damage by 66% (thats massive) and Enfeebling blood spreads it in a nearby range, while Price only affects 1 target every 20ecs (bad).

I'm also a little curious on what areas would require Grenth for enchantment removal

payne · Nov 26, 2007, 07:31 PM // 19:31

conditions have half time on bosses - were blind is really useful - if you tank properly the casters are not the targets of enemy attacks - I can tank a whole mob without a caster taking damage playing as a ranger - with whirling defence yar-de-yar

dervish bar - Nundu Bay HM for one Melonni needs a good bar and it kills the Dervish / Ele bosses before they even start killing your team..some of the areas in Vabbi /Northern Shiverpeaks enchant strip tanks are great...Dervish bosses / bonder monk bosses especially...if the hero can tank and remove all enchants perma. then it works well!

go test it on Nundu HM and let that prove to you that it works great as an enchant strip tank...

----convo closed i.e no more discussion...other feedback is awesome...cant be assed to discuss grenth's tank anymore it works and thats that...seeming as a bar only has to be good for one thing to be concluded as useful it doesn't have to be used in everything!
it does work in Vabbi - tested it there and it works remarkably well with enchant strip while tanking heavy DPS bosses - convo perma close ^^

Cathode_Reborn · Nov 26, 2007, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by payne

dervish bar - Nundu Bay HM for one Melonni needs a good bar and it kills the Dervish / Ele bosses before they even start killing your team..some of the areas in Vabbi /Northern Shiverpeaks enchant strip tanks are great...Dervish bosses / bonder monk bosses especially...if the hero can tank and remove all enchants perma. then it works well!

go test it on Nundu HM and let that prove to you that it works great as an enchant strip tank...

----convo closed

Outside Nundu (since you need Mel), I dont think there's anywhere in pve where Grenth could be considered "worth" bringing. There's plenty of areas where disenchants help abit though....in those situations, simpler options are more effective - Rip enchantment on the curse nec Gaze of contempt (on anyone, since its unlinked), are both good choices. If your frontliners can afford to lose enchantments, Rending touch is another good choice. Sacrificing a whole party member and it's elite skill is not a good way to deal with enchantments in pve. People did do that in pvp though (Grenth dervs before nerf). In pve, there's other ways to deal with ai that use bad builds. Keep in mind that while some enemies may lots of disenchants, not all of them are harmful, and some of them are even useless, such as enemies that use ele Attunements.

Quote:

Originally Posted by payne

conditions have half time on bosses - were blind is really useful - if you tank properly the casters are not the targets of enemy attacks - I can tank a whole mob without a caster taking damage playing as a ranger - with whirling defence yar-de-yar

If you can tank well enough so your casters avoid getting targetted, there's even less reason to bring 2 blind skills. Blinding flash recharges in 4secs, and against Tyrian/NF bosses, the blind duration would be 5secs.

payne · Dec 10, 2007, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Just updating to say I have added an Assassin skill bar for those who would like it...thats all off to finish Legendary Guardian ^^

Wakka · Dec 10, 2007, 02:16 PM // 14:16

I didnt think Hero's used BSurge? Like at all lol

payne · Dec 10, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wakka

I didnt think Hero's used BSurge? Like at all lol

hmm...interesting mine actually seem to...heroes respond to different players lol! have to play with him some more see if I found what you find?

viens87 · Dec 14, 2007, 03:05 PM // 15:05

any one know for self nice mesmer build for vanguishing areas ?

Wakka · Dec 14, 2007, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

hmm...interesting mine actually seem to...heroes respond to different players lol! have to play with him some more see if I found what you find?

I will try again tonight.

But I was on my place to the battledepths is it? Where all the stone dwarfs are in EotN. And theres quite a few Dervishes in the way and no non-melee baddies. Only time he cast it was when I told him to do so.

Lourens · Dec 14, 2007, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Thanks alot

i noticed my main problem are skills i havent unlocked

payne · Dec 14, 2007, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lourens

Thanks alot

i noticed my main problem are skills i havent unlocked

no probs. for the builds...tried to steer away from the FoTM style skills so regularily seen...tried on some of the bars - others the basics work the best - eles and necros for instance

Squishy ftw · Dec 14, 2007, 07:30 PM // 19:30

I've been using my razah A LOT lately while vanquishing and finishing guardian title. Thought I'd post his build here, if you like it you can try it out. IMO, it's great

[skill]splinter weapon[/skill][skill]warmonger's weapon[/skill][skill]ancestors' rage[/skill][skill]wielder's remedy[/skill][skill]Mighty Was Vorizun[/skill][skill]caretaker's charge[/skill][skill]spotless mind[/skill][skill]flesh of my flesh[/skill]

14 channeling, 10 communing, 8 spawning, 6 healing.

Splinter weapons is just lovely when they all bundle up nicely like most enemies tend to do. Warmonger's is great when you need to shut someone down, I mostly forcecast it on myself and whack away on whoever it is that needs to be shut down.
Ancestor's is just an awesome skill(even better is that you get to see the damage

)
Wielder's remedy is to help a bit with condition removal.
Mighty was virozun and caretaker's is just something to protect himself (more armor, energy, and health gain) while doing some ok damage aswel.
Spotless mind is there to help keep the monks clean of hexes. and ofcourse, a hard rez to end with.

tmr819 · Dec 14, 2007, 07:48 PM // 19:48

I hate to sound noobish here

... but is there a reason a particular build would work better for a Hero in HM than in normal mode?

I have only done a little bit in HM, vanquished just a couple of areas (I found vanquishing really tedious, so I quit...), ran a mission or two. But it seems as though a good Hero build would work well regardless of the Mode, no?

As for me, I have been looking around for better Hero builds for my Anton/Zenmai and for Razah. I look forward to trying the builds here out. Thanks for posting these builds.

Xylia · Dec 14, 2007, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmr819

I have only done a little bit in HM, vanquished just a couple of areas (I found vanquishing really tedious, so I quit...), ran a mission or two. But it seems as though a good Hero build would work well regardless of the Mode, no?

A lot of builds that work well in NM don't work well in HM. A build that seems good in NM may not really be that great.

Also, there are some builds that work better in HM than in NM, or skills that have been useless before suddenly become useful. Anything that triggers when an opponent attacks or casts a spell is triggered more frequently, as the enemies have increased attack speed, reduced casting time, and reduced skill/spell recharge time. [skill]Enfeebling blood[/skill] and [skill]reckless haste[/skill] are some examples of skills that are "nice" in normal mode, but are extremely effective in HM.

Terraban · Dec 14, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy ftw

I've been using my razah A LOT lately while vanquishing and finishing guardian title. Thought I'd post his build here, if you like it you can try it out. IMO, it's great

[skill]splinter weapon[/skill][skill]warmonger's weapon[/skill][skill]ancestors' rage[/skill][skill]wielder's remedy[/skill][skill]Mighty Was Vorizun[/skill][skill]caretaker's charge[/skill][skill]spotless mind[/skill][skill]flesh of my flesh[/skill]

14 channeling, 10 communing, 8 spawning.

Splinter weapons is just lovely when they all bundle up nicely like most enemies tend to do. Warmonger's is great when you need to shut someone down, I mostly forcecast it on myself and whack away on whoever it is that needs to be shut down.
Ancestor's is just an awesome skill(even better is that you get to see the damage

)
Wielder's remedy is to help a bit with condition removal.
Mighty was virozun and caretaker's is just something to protect himself (more armor, energy, and health gain) while doing some ok damage aswel.
Spotless mind is there to help keep the monks clean of hexes. and ofcourse, a hard rez to end with.

Caretaker's Charge = Fail
Wielder's Remedy = Meh
Spotless Mind only lasts 1 second at zero attribute, it takes 5 seconds to remove a hex? Nevermind, read the anomaly tag on wiki.

Squishy ftw · Dec 14, 2007, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

Caretaker's Charge = Fail
Wielder's Remedy = Meh
Spotless Mind only lasts 1 second at zero attribute, it takes 5 seconds to remove a hex? Nevermind, read the anomaly tag on wiki.

I forgot to mention the 6 attribute points in healing

I mostly have the rit put this one on me right before I draw aggro. Immediatly takes care of 2 hex skills

I have Wielder's in it mostly to keep myself clean of blind/weakness in case monks are too busy prot/healing.

and since caretaker's is fail according to you, what would you replace it with ?

Terraban · Dec 14, 2007, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy ftw

I forgot to mention the 6 attribute points in healing

I mostly have the rit put this one on me right before I draw aggro. Immediatly takes care of 2 hex skills

I have Wielder's in it mostly to keep myself clean of blind/weakness in case monks are too busy prot/healing.

and since caretaker's is fail according to you, what would you replace it with ?

[skill]Offering of Spirit[/skill][skill]Protective Was Kaolai[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Ancestors' Rage[/skill][skill]Essence Strike[/skill][skill]Mend Body and Soul[/skill][skill]Bloodsong[/skill][skill]Flesh of my Flesh[/skill]

I left out Warmonger's, because most of the time I would rather have Splinter Weapon on me in PvE.

Left out Spotless Mind because there is rarely serious hexes thrown about, and if there is, they usually come in such huge of stacks that single hex removers won't do much anyway.

payne · Dec 15, 2007, 12:30 PM // 12:30

just a post to say I have added a new 'sin bar to the original post...its runs practically the same but with an altered "combo of skills"! enjoy it

keep the feedback coming

peace all

Lourens · Dec 15, 2007, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xylia

A lot of builds that work well in NM don't work well in HM. A build that seems good in NM may not really be that great.

Also, there are some builds that work better in HM than in NM, or skills that have been useless before suddenly become useful. Anything that triggers when an opponent attacks or casts a spell is triggered more frequently, as the enemies have increased attack speed, reduced casting time, and reduced skill/spell recharge time. [skill]Enfeebling blood[/skill] and [skill]reckless haste[/skill] are some examples of skills that are "nice" in normal mode, but are extremely effective in HM.

reckless haste only has the 50% miss chance of monsters since they allready have 33% IAS

it isnt that great in hardmode

Squishy ftw · Dec 15, 2007, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lourens

reckless haste only has the 50% miss chance of monsters since they allready have 33% IAS

it isnt that great in hardmode

40-50% to miss is pretty great in HM IMO. Since melee in HM hits very hard.